That includesOppenheimer, for which Roven accepted theBest Picture Oscaralong withChristopher Nolanand Emma Thomas.
Roven was steadfast that their struggle remain private.
This was two bulls locking horns, and I walked away shaken.
Charles Roven with Cillian Murphy on the set of ‘Oppenheimer‘Melinda Sue Gordon/Universal Pictures
Whats the matter with you?
I told Roven I would not write it.
DEADLINE:There will be plenty of back-patting for you at the Beverly Hilton tomorrow night.
With plenty trying to leverage credit and a piece of your fee.
And of course, who doesnt like good war stories?
So, what was the most challenging film you made, and why?
That wasHeart Like a Wheel.
I had to replace my lead actor, which is unusual on any movie.
But to have to do that on your first one?
He really didnt leave me any choice.
DEADLINE:Who was he and at what point in production did you replace him?
ROVEN: Id rather not say who, but we were three weeks in.
He was the reason we got the financing and he knew it and he was disruptive.
Jonathan Kaplan was the director, and this particular actor in the middle of takes would yell cut.
Jonathan finally said to him, Hey, I am the director.
I say, action.
I say, cut.
And you do everything in between.
ROVEN: It actually didnt work exactly that way.
I had a conversation with the actor, of course.
I then called his agent, and this was on a Friday.
And I said to the agent, this is what happened.
Bonnie Bedelia played Shirley Muldowney, who was a real person, and her performance was fantastic.
And he is offscreen, giving dialogue to her, in a tearful scene.
She was very emotional.
And in the middle of it, even though he was offscreen, he yelled cut.
That was the final straw.
She got very upset and said, I like what I was doing.
The cameras on me.
What are you doing?
And his response was, I look out for Numero Uno.
DEADLINE:Was he saying that her work in that scene was so good it overshadowed his?
Is that what it is?
DEADLINE:Not what you needed to hear?
ROVEN: He said, Let me tell you something, okay?
Im just not a movie star, a TV star.
Ive produced things, alright?
And Im going to tell you this: if you want me to, Im happy to quit.
So I spend the weekend talking to everybody, including the actors and the director and the writer.
Well need at least two weeks.
And they said, whatever, lets do it.
I called my friends in the agency business and said, who can I get?
I said, can he start on Monday?
He said, Sure if he likes the script.
He gave me his address.
I went to his house.
I rang the doorbell.
I mean, I rang the gate bell.
I climbed over the fence.
I threw the script on his porch.
I climbed back over the fence.
This is the 80s.
There were no cell phones.
I go to a phone booth, I call the agent, I say, its on his porch.
Get him to launch the f*cking door.
He calls me up 6 oclock on Sunday and says, Heres what we want.
I go, Ill call you back.
I call the other actor.
I say, you know what?
Ive been thinking about this.
I really appreciate your offer to leave the show.
Im accepting, which means I dont owe you anything because you resigned.
DEADLINE:Highlight moment in a trying week?
ROVEN: It was.
DEADLINE:Was this the last you heard from that actor?
ROVEN: He arrived on Monday to the set.
I did not take him back.
He said, but Im ready to change.
I said, you had so many chances.
Anyway, thats not something that Ive ever had to do again.
Im like, holy sh*t.
DEADLINE:What lasting lesson did you learn?
ROVEN: That its the movie.
You have to protect it.
Thats the most important thing.
Because if you do something other than that, its going to be a slippery slope.
But you also have to see to it that everybody is focused on the big picture…
DEADLINE:Not narcissism or ego?
ROVEN:The integrity of the film.
ROVEN: Well, that movie shut down because Sam was fired on the first day of principal photography.
That saddened me, because Sam was great for the part.
But he waswild.And his wildness was assisted by things he shouldnt have been taking.
InAtuk, he plays an Inuit whos desperate to live in New York.
That role was going to be played by Ben Affleck, in his very first movie.
Ben worked one day.
Ben Stiller played his psychiatrist.
He worked one day.
Chris Walken was going to play the Trump-like real estate magnate.
Hes always late, or doesnt even show up.
He said, Look, if you could make this whole movie at night …
I swear, you cant make this sh*t up.
I said, okay, Ill work on that.
DEADLINE:Did he mean keep them away, or put them on payroll?
ROVEN: Just stop them from doing it.
He said, it keeps me up at night.
So then we have the read-through and he doesnt show up.
After several hours, everybody goes home and he comes in to see me.
To let me know that Im not the master of his schedule.
Hes also very upset with me because he doesnt think I laugh at his jokes.
And he wants a limousine, not a paint truck, for the car that picks him up.
I go, a paint truck?
He says, You know, you are sending a station wagon.
DEADLINE:How do you respond to that?
Otherwise I wouldnt have talked the studio into hiring you.
But you cant keep doing this.
And then he stands up and he goes, This movies not big enough for the two of us.
So Im going to talk to my representative about getting rid of you.
I say to him, you know what?
The director calls me up and he says, Wow, I cant believe you did that.
But hes the star and Im the director.
I hope you understand.
Im going to back his play.
DEADLINE:Sounds like backing Kinison didnt work out for that filmmaker?
ROVEN: I call up everybody.
I say, come to my room.
Lets talk this through.
In the meeting, the director is saying, What the hell is this?
And Sam is saying, What do you mean?
You were with me last night, we did this together.
The director gets up and walks out.
Sam gets up and walks out.
Sam comes in and hes got the script in his hand.
If we get through lunch, hes supposed to start shooting.
And hes wearing a wig with pigtails.
And they say to Sam, what are your beefs?
He points at me and says, First of all, I dont like this guy.
I say, tell them why you dont like me.
He picks me up in a paint truck.
He wants to be in charge of my schedule.
And hes not laughing enough at my jokes.
DEADLINE:That is a lot to recover from…
ROVEN: It gets worse.
So we start to talk a little bit more, and finally he says, You know what?
And then well see who has the last laugh.
Im not sure who it was, but someone said, no, I dont think so.
I think were going to fire you and were going to hold you responsible for our shutdown costs.
Sam stands up and goes, What the f*ck am I wearing this wig for?
He walks out, goes to his hotel room, and destroys it.
So that was a unique experience.
DEADLINE:He was like a tornado.
Can you contrast Sam with Robin Williams, when you worked with him inCadillac Man?
Same volcanic creativity…
ROVEN: Oh, Robin was great.
I had nothing but admiration for him and for Tim [Robbins], they just had amazing chemistry.
We had such a great time, in every way.
Robin did his lines, and then he did what he wanted to do.
DEADLINE:How much of his improvisation found its way into that film?
ROVEN: Oh, a lot.
And the same thing with Tim, because their dynamic was so good.
Yeah, I wish Id had the chance to work with Robin more…
DEADLINE:Weve seen comic genius can come from people who are fractured.
ROVEN: I never experienced that.
It was a Cadillac sales company that we were at.
DEADLINE:You were at the mercy of a car salesman with leverage?
But as smart as he was, he took a regular check.
We only needed the lot for two days.
He took a regular check, deposited it in his account.
I stopped payment on it, and I wrote him a new check for the price of the contract.
DEADLINE:Any others in that period that carried that sense of turbulent adventurousness?
Those kinds of things happen.
There was the day before we started shootingUncharted, and we shut down for Covid.
Wed done all that prep.
We hashed out all the problems with the budget and everything, and were all excited.
We have a great cast, Mark Wahlberg and Tom Holland.
And then we have to shut down.
DEADLINE:How did you weather that one?
ROVEN: We worked with the guys who owned Babelsberg Studios in Potsdam, which is outside of Berlin.
They closed our sets so we didnt have to tear them down.
They waited for us several months to come back, and they helped us work the Covid protocols.
They adopted most of them.
DEADLINE:So you were able to shoot without outbreaks?
ROVEN: We thought we were so bright.
We had this big rave scene, which is in the movie.
It was in this downtown underground club, which the town was famous for.
The only thing we didnt do was put monitors on every floor.
DEADLINE:So the rave became a super spreader event?
We got rid of them.
We brought in others.
We made sure that they Covid-tested the day before.
But if you were an extra at the rave, youre testing every day.
He came to us and he was like 12 days into that.
And Sony said, nope, these are the protocols.
You got to shut down.
How much would those two weeks have cost you?
That would have been almost $4 million.
DEADLINE:Are we going to see moreUncharted?
And then right after that, he and Zendaya are doingSpider-Man.
I think both those movies are releasing on the same day or the week after each other or something.
Its another potential Barbenheimer.
DEADLINE:Delightful guy, that Tom Holland.
We had the first celebrity golf tournament, and Tom was the big draw.
He also starred in this terrific short film directed by his brother, Harry, which played opening night.
He said he was okay, but Joe Russo drove him to the hospital anyway.
He was back in time to attend a dinner that night, a knot on his head.
But since you werent…Oops.
Now youve got me spilling the tea.
ROVEN: Theyre a great family, and I love working with him.
I cant wait for him to do the nextUncharted.
I cant wait for him to doAmerican Speed.
Thats a true story based on these four Whittington brothers [Holland will star with Austin Butler].
They had some other really interesting things about their life and how they got to be where they are.
Its a very interesting story.
DEADLINE:Some say they financed their racing ambitions through nefarious means, I think.
Now, along with Christopher Nolan and Emma Thomas, you accepted the Best Picture Oscar forOppenheimer.
ROVEN: I said, I really need to read the script.
The Nolans are big on secrecy.
I did that, we met, and it worked out and I was offered the job.
And that started myDark Knighttrilogy relationship with them.
And we also became quite friendly.
DEADLINE:They seem a pretty self contained operation.
What were you able to do for them?
ROVEN: When Chris committed toBatman Begins, he wanted no superpowers for his Batman or the bad guys.
On that first film, I was able to help the Nolans understand studio methodology.
Emmas always with Chris when hes shooting.
So that continued our relationship.
That movie was successful, and really launched the rest of the DC universe.
And then we just kept the relationship going.
I was having some of my own issues with him, the kind Chris and Emma were having onTenet.
They really liked it.
I asked them what they were thinking of doing afterTenet.
I had already been given and had read the bookAmerican Prometheus, which was pretty amazing.
The complexity of the story required a tour de force.
So Chris already knew who Oppenheimer was, and here Im talking about the book.
So thats serendipitous, but sometimes thats how it works.
DEADLINE:Heath Ledgerplaying Joker inThe Dark Knight.
Youd worked with him onThe Brothers Grimm.
You see the potential right away?
ROVEN: Oh, yeah.
I loved that idea.
DEADLINE:Heath was selective.
He turned downSpider-Man, before the role went to Tobey Maguire.
Why did he say yes to this?
ROVEN: He wanted to work with Chris.
Hed just finished makingBrokeback Mountainwith Jake Gyllenhaal.
The social media buzz wasnt great when we cast him.
It was really sad and really ridiculous.
He wanted to learn how to direct.
He was a skateboarder and would skate to the set even if he wasnt shooting.
And I went to an Imax screening of that with him.
It was just me and him there, and he was so overjoyed by what he saw.
He had tears in his eyes, tears of joy when it was over.
It was really emotional.
And then he was dead a week later.
DEADLINE:Such a tragedy, and he never got to see the whole film?
And it was just so not true.
He was such a special man.
DEADLINE:Like Chadwick Boseman, you wonder where his career might have taken him.
This must have been devastating for you…
ROVEN: Well each made a big mark.
I had gotten to work with Heath onThe Brothers Grimm, with Matt Damon.
AndTerry Gilliam, oh my gosh.
Harvey Weinstein and Terry Gilliam.
Thats the only time I got I hired three times after being fired twice on the same movie.
DEADLINE:How does that happen?
ROVEN: The first clash came the night before we started shooting.
Bob or Harvey Weinstein, were arguing literally hours over the width of the mutton chops for Matt.
That was how important it was for Harvey.
How wide were the mutton chops?
He had to have control over Terry.
I guess I would soon be fired for being a producer.
DEADLINE:Thats a fireable offense?
I said, but I already had made their deal.
And I said, no.
And they said, alright, thank you.
I flew home for a meeting.
My daughter was working on the camera crew at the time.
I go, what are you talking about?
Bob never spoke to our director.
So they didnt talk to each other for three weeks.
He says, well, Im teaching my brother what its like to work with an auteur filmmaker.
He says, isnt Chuck producing that movie?
He goes, yeah, but I had to let him go.
He says, really?
Didnt Chuck produce12 Monkeys?
Wasnt that the biggest hit that Terry Gilliam ever had?
Well, good move, firing Chuck.
The next day, I get a call.
Chuck, we just cant get over the fact that youre not on this movie anymore.
I said, you got to talk to Jake.
Im not coming back unless I know what my deal is.
They make the deal.
Thats the first time I was fired.
DEADLINE:Tell me the second time you got fired?
It was surprising to me because they were complaining that the film was too dark.
But itsThe Brothers Grimm, and there are certain aspects to that.
It has to have a certain kind of feel to it.
They decided in a meeting with me that it didnt matter, they were the studio.
I said, dont you think we should have a conversation with the director?
And they said, no.
That time they hadnt talked for three weeks.
That was another thing that came up in the conversation with Bryan Lourd.
They said, we dont care.
I said, well, I care.
And they said, well, youre not the producer anymore.
DEADLINE:How long did that last?
Whyd you come back?
ROVEN: I was fired for the length of time that it took to replace the DP.
It took three weeks and it cost them the millions of dollars that I suggested it might.
And the DP was Tom Sigal, who I had worked with onThree Kings.
Because of a very aggressive creative meeting that we had that also caused Terry to leave the movie.
DEADLINE:Whats the lasting lesson of being fired twice and returning to finish the film?
ROVEN: By then I had a reputation that the movies the most important thing.
Nobodys perfect, right?
Sometimes my ideas are sh*t, but you better be able to have a creative exchange.
We may not agree with him, but you dont have to wonder what Chucks thinking.
He tells you how he feels.
DEADLINE:Or passive aggressive?
ROVEN: Never passive aggressive.
DEADLINE:One other trouble spot I was curious about.
And there was his legendary scrap with George Clooney onThree Kings.
Both of these were great movies.
What role do you as producer play in mitigating things like this?
David is a very intense artist with a particular way of working that can get messy.
And also to get what they want out of performance.
So Jonathan said, come with me.
Lets go in the trailer.
Im never going to work with you again.
And Jonathan said, as [hes being choked], was this extemporaneous?
Did you think about that?
Okay, get the f*ck out there and do the scene.
DEADLINE:So what happens after the actor chokes your director?
So I was sad to know what happened with the relationship with Amy [Adams] and David.
Because Amy worked with David, not just inAmerican Hustle.
But what aboutThe Fighter?
Shes been nominated both times for working with David Russell.
Whatever Davids style is, it gets great performances.
Bradley Cooper was nominated, Christian Bale won forThe Fighter.
Jennifer Lawrence won forSilver Linings Playbook.
I mean, he gets results.
Im not saying its always pretty, but its certainly most of the time, pretty great.
But it didnt seem that it was as dramatic as it turned out to be.
It didnt come out while we were promoting the movie or even while the movie was in release.
Im sorry that it happened at all.
DEADLINE:What aboutThree Kings, where he and Clooney famously got in a brawl?
The film shot in the heat of the desert, does that send tempers soaring?
The studio wanted an eight-day shorter schedule.
I did not believe we could get that done.
I begged David, I said, Im telling you right now, Ive been through this.
Im just telling you, David, we cant make this on the schedule they want.
Were making an action military movie, not some people in a room.
He goes, I can run and gun.
I can make it.
It was not makeable.
And we started to lose time, and we were quickly several days behind schedule.
Its very animated, and it looks like theyre getting beaten up.
Because he was working seven days a week for 12 weeks.
So sometimes we had to do another take or two.
And I was literally there, and I held back George and Mykelti Williamson held back David.
We pulled them apart and we finished the movie.
I was sad because they had made up.
And George knows how good the movie is.
And so thats the thing.
But the Amy thing makes me very sad because they really clicked.
I think shes a great actress.
She gives great performances, and two of her best are with David.
DEADLINE:Youve been very involved in that DC universe.
Christian Bale was cast already as Bruce Wayne by the time I got on that move.
I love the guy as a human being and as an actor, hes just so amazing.
Ive been really lucky to have such great actors and actresses.
Gal Gadot was really Zack Snyders discovery.
DEADLINE:What are you making?
ROVEN: I cant say.
Were putting it together, and we have a great script.
And I worked with James Gunn on the firstScooby-Doo.
He wrote the first and the second one.
ROVEN: Am I depressed?
Listen, I had a great run with them on theDark Knighttrilogy.
They again reached out to me to be involved inMan of Steel.
Would I have liked to have been on those movies?
But I wasnt asked and I totally get it.
Theyre a great team.
They dont need somebody else.
Thats why I was a producer on the movie, and that was correct.
So thats the point.
And believe me, as much as I love Chris and Emma, we dont always get along either.
People have different opinions.
DEADLINE: Being a yes man doesnt make you indispensable.
You mentioned12 Monkeys, and that it was Terry Gilliams most successful film.
On paper, boy that seemed a complicated film to pull off.
Why did it work?
ROVEN: A lot of why that worked was the brilliance of Terrys casting.
Brad Pitts representatives wanted him to play Cole, but Terry wanted him to play Goines.
Terry really, really wanted Bruce Willis to play Cole.
ROVEN: Brilliant choice for both roles.
Brad said, thats what I want to play.
So that happened, and he got an Oscar nomination for it.
And Madeleine Stowe was just so wonderful [as the scientist who aids Cole].
Theres a documentary calledThe Hamster Factor, which is part of the12 MonkeysDVD and worth looking at.
The reason its calledThe Hamster Factoris because Terry can go down rabbit holes.
And he gets washed down with all these chemicals.
DEADLINE:How does one coax a better performance out of a hamster?
ROVEN: I dont know.
But thats the wonderful thing about Terry, who can go down those rabbit holes.
Sometimes it causes you problems.
It would be totally f*cked if we didnt finish.
Terry says, I love that kids blue eyes.
I know I can get the role out of him.
I go, God, I love the blue eyes too.
But this other kid is so much better.
Hes the director, and I said, you go with the kid with the blue eyes.
Call the mother of the other kid, tell her were going to pay him for the day.
I just want him to stand by, be downstairs in his same outfit, ready to go.
I dont tell this to Terry.
Were halfway through the day.
Terry comes up to me and goes, Chuck, were so f*cked.
I cant get the performance out of the kid.
What are we going to do?
Wheres that other kid, he asks.
I said, hes downstairs, and hes already dressed.
The kid comes up, and he crushes it.
Thats the kid in the movie.
ROVEN: Thats the thing that Im trying to say, Mike; theres no textbook for this.
Its a gut feel.
And so much of what we do, its a business, but its also inspiration.
You cant divorce the two, and you really dont want to, to be honest.
He can direct and make amazing movies and be a great writer without being a great producer.
And you cant tell, because you dont know what youre going to need to do.
DEADLINE:Its that struggle, that need to rise to the occasion, that drives you?
And sometimes it doesnt work.
Ive made some movies that Im not all that proud of.
DEADLINE:Have you got a dream project?
He actually gave it to me.
Its Tom WolfesThe Electric Kool-Aid Acid Test.
You ever read it?
DEADLINE:Years ago, when I plowed through all of Tom Wolfes books.
ROVEN: So my brother Fred bought that book.
He was not in my business, but he was a great supporter of my business.
He got me into the securities business, which is a whole other story.
I actually owned my own broker dealer company for a while, while I was going to film school.
Anyway, he bought the book for me.
But Ive got a really wonderful relationship with the Wolfe family.
DEADLINE:Why did it take 40 years?
What was the biggest impediment that kept it from being likeOppenheimer, where it was like, boom.
I didnt begrudge him.
We had a great relationship.
He was seven years older than me, very successful.
When he passed, the rights went to his estate.
My nephews a great guy who ended up making a development deal at 20th.
But that project went nowhere.
Darren said, hey, arent we crazy here?
Shouldnt we go to Chuck and see if he can help us put this together?
So they did, and that made me very happy.
And now Im hoping that we can get the movie made.
DEADLINE:What do you mean?
And then the counterculture came in, and became the culture.
And we were locked into a war that we shouldnt have been in.
Of course, that continues to happen.
DEADLINE:Plus, hallucinogenic drugs…
ROVEN: Plus hallucinogens, which keep making a comeback.
You know the character of the Indian?
He came up with him while he was high on LSD.
Chief Broom came out of him being at a CIA test that he got paid for.
The CIA paid for him to take the drugs, so he could go to school.
I met Kesey, I went up there to Oregon.
He was very happy with the way things turned out.
ROVEN: Dawn meant everything to me, and we have a tremendous daughter.
I was sad that she left the planet so early.
The great moves that she made while she was in Paramount.
And she started out in consumer products.
DEADLINE:She created designer toilet paper, no?
ROVEN: Well, that was illegal.
She made Gucci toilet paper without getting rights from Gucci.
Well, until they said, hey, you cant use our brand.
It was called The Cock Sock.
So what is that?
Its for the man who has everything and nowhere to put it.
DEADLINE:I recall she had pretty good and salty sense of humor.
And she could have a temper.
Theres some crazy stories about her.
She was really definitely a force of nature.
I have blocked them out, call it a survival mechanism.
ROVEN: That was easy to do, piss her off.
Can you imagine being married to her?
ROVEN: Probably not.
DEADLINE:Whats that like, learning youve been doing business on a phone that is wiretapped?
What happened is, Id put together a deal similar to the one that got12 Monkeysdone.
We needed a first project and MGM wanted to do a remake ofRollerball.
I talk to my partners and they say, go to Hungary and meet with him.
I meet with him.
We have a fantastic meeting, we hug, we cant wait to do the movie together.
I fly back and McTiernans manager, Michael Menchel was waiting for me in my office when I return.
I go, whats up?
He goes, McTiernan checked you out.
You got to say, okay.
I thought, I dont know, but I finally say yes.
Not too difficult to notice, Im looking at the dailies.
We really should talk about this.
He goes, oh, really?
Let me think about that and Ill get back to you.
I dont hear from him, and hes still making material changes.
And I dont really understand the movie youre shooting.
Youre the only one who understands the movie that youre shooting.
They say, were supporting the director.
We believe in him.
Hes been successful for us.
The only one whos sort of on my side that doesnt have the power is Alex.
I call my financial partners.
I say, look, guys, Im just letting you know this is whats going on.
We have the right to get out of the movie.
Were financing half the movie.
They say, were supporting the director.
We want you to stay in the movie.
Now the movie gets finished.
McGurk goes, is that Harry Knowles?
And McTiernan goes, yep.
McGurk says, this is our first preview, and youre bringing a guy whos online commenting on movies?
He goes, dont worry about it.
Chris said, were your partners, why didnt you ask us?
He said, why?
You just wouldve said no.
So we go in.
The movies a f*cking disaster.
The next day, Harry Knowles writes his article.
I just came back from seeing John McTiernans movie.
Hes one of my favorite directors of all time.
it’s possible for you to imagine how much I wanted to love the movie.
And then he f*cking destroys the movie.
He says, MGM has kind of turned their back on me.
I think I made a mistake in the way things happened between us.
Would you come into the editing room and make a run at help me?
I say, okay.
Thats how lost he was.
The movie comes out and it is a f*cking disaster.
I think its the biggest loser I ever had.
Five years later, the FBI comes to my office.
They said, Mr. Roven, we think youve been the victim of a wiretap.
I go, what are you talking about?
He wiretapped his customers as well.
They turn on the tape and its Pellicano talking to McTiernan.
I cant figure out what the guy means or what the hell hes talking about.
McTiernan goes, I dont give a f*ck about that.
What I want to know is how I can hurt this guy.
So the FBI guy goes, do you know either one of those voices?
And I go, well, I dont know one of them, but the other one is McTiernan.
The statute of limitations on a wiretap is five years from the date of the wiretap.
It had been over the five years.
And he ended up going to prison as a result of it.
She had worked for one of the lawyers and McTiernan had gotten close to her.
She says, Im here to ask you to change your testimony.
ROVEN: I go, look, Im at a dinner.
I dont really know what you want.
I dont think I can help you, so yo leave me alone.
There are people around here that are witnessing that Im not going to have this conversation with you.
you’re gonna wanna leave now.
She gets hold of my lawyer, who says, you are asking Mr. Roven to perjure himself?
Hes not doing that.
Hes going to tell the truth.
DEADLINE:Did Pellicano get anything from you that proved hurtful?
And they got nothing.
