This one-two punch also announces a major filmmaking talent, though hes no overnight success.
And you always want that.
Now they at least have a chance.
Edward Berger with one of his four Oscars for ‘All Quiet on the Western Front.‘Mike Coppola/Getty Images
Berger: No, of course not.
It wouldve been sort of the end of it.
We saw all the new blood among the Democrats, and the diversity.
Ralph Fiennes in ‘Conclave’SXSW
Berger: Thats what you hope.
Its not just Americas ceiling that is raised, its the world.
We all follow America; at least the Western world looks to America.
It just influences the world so much.
If Kamala wins what that does for my children, that there is a future.
I think some of these kids are kind of giving up.
Theyre not in the 1%…
Berger: Yeah, youre not in the 1% club.
The environment is going down.
All the governments are shit, all over the world.
What do I have to aspire to?
And if they see Kamala up there, they have something to aspire to.
It gives the whole world a positive spin somehow.
Where were in the process of making All Quiet On The Western Front when Conclave came about?
Berger: Movies have a way of finding you, a way of slotting in at the right time.
They come together, they take a while.
I was like, brilliant idea.
It might be the end of us, but lets take it on.
And that just went quickly.Conclavetook a while.
Finding the right actor was key.
I worked on the script while I shot, refining the script at night and on weekends.
WhenAll Quietwas done and I was clear, we got Ralph Fiennes.
You have to find these people, theyre difficult to get.
Ralph has a schedule.
Hes booked for years, but he wants to pick the right things.
Ralph was that person.
He said yes, right away.
He read it within three days, called me and asked me to come to his play.
Tessa and I went out for dinner with him afterwards.
We got along and said, okay, lets do it.
It was super simple.
It could have been, when youre makingAll Quietthat movies change you and you become a different person afterwards.
The wonderful thing here is thatAll Quietmanifested in me the need to make it.
Lets do the opposite.
This is a chamber piece, really, with a lot of dialogue.
All Quiet had literally like 10 sentences of dialogue.
This one is basically driven by smart dialogue.
The dialogue needs to be great.
I wanted to try that now, and work with this ensemble to try and make something different.
It was the exact opposite challenge that all quiet put in front of me.
All Quiet won the Oscar and received much adulation.
You say that the film changed you.
Berger: The adulation doesnt change you.
That doesnt matter; in a way thats noise.
What changes you is the physical experience on of the making of it.
I dont need to try it again.
Now, I wouldnt be afraid of a war movie, but it wouldnt be the same challenge.
I would think, you know what?
I might be a little bit bored doing it.
A friend of mine asked me, why do you flock to this movie or that movie?
How do you determine?
I think in the end, theres a theme in both movies that is not too dissimilar.
And you just follow that person.
I tried that withAll Quietin very different ways.
Theyre very different pop in of movies.Conclaveis a much more static movie thanAll Quietfor obvious reasons.
People sit, so why move the camera?
It makes a huge difference how it impacts you.
And the other similar thing is probably the theme of liberation in the end.
Ralph opens the window and hes liberated from this burden that was on his shoulders… Are you a religious man?
Berger: I would say I dont go to church.
I think in that case its very important, but to me thats not what drew me toConclave.
To me it was really all the power struggles that go behind the wall.
It is a universal story.
It could be the same story.
And thats why I think in the end its a universal power struggle story.
Thats what drew me to it.
Along with Ralphs interior journey of doubt, which I really liked.
Doubt drives Conclave, doesnt it?
Berger: I love the doubt theme.
It resonates with a lot of people because we all have it.
Doubt creeps in all the time.
Its no different when you make a movie and youve got to choose whats going to happen.
And you dont know if youre right.
I think when you look into his characters eyes, hes driven by doubt.
And as an actor or a filmmaker, its not an exact science.
You have the best intentions to make a good movie.
Is it going to be a good movie?
We would only have good movies if we knew.
You put the camera there, you hope and pray that its going to be good.
But you never know until you show it to the public.
Until you are alone with the movie and that crowd.
You have your producers around you, and everyones corrupted because theyve seen it 50 times.
Its out of your control.
And sometimes that movie can tank, even though its maybe a good movie.
And sometimes it resonates with people and takes hold, but you never know.
And so I am completely driven by doubt.
Every time I put the camera somewhere or I make an edit, I question myself.
Is it the right one?
Im completely driven by doubt and I actually take all my energy from it.
That is…profound…
Berger: I have learned to embrace it.
Ive learned to embrace doubt as a source of strength.
I used to have confidence problems because of doubt, because I doubted so much.
But still, your need to doubt is such an important part of making movies.
And any actor whos probably doesnt know, and any director feels that all the time.
He said, really?
I mean filmmaking wasnt an option.
I come from a car manufacturing town.
There was no filmmaker.
I didnt even know you could study it.
But he saw something in me.
He didnt say, dont do it.
He said, you could do it.
But I think I always thought your interests were elsewhere.
Its not a profession.
So then I suddenly realized, maybe I should look into this.
Maybe I should look into if I can make my passion to my profession?
You were a big movie fan?
Berger: Big movie fan, but I thought, Im a movie watcher.
Who doesnt love movies?
What was the north star film that made you want to do this?
Berger:Apocalypse Now.
It wasnt driven by a plot because its meandering to an upper river and looking for someone.
If youre 19 or 18, youre looking for the darkness.
You kind of dont quite know what that means.
Francis owns that movie because nobody would take a chance on it, even after The Godfather.
You see it in the documentary.
He constantly goes, what are we doing?
Anybody, any director in their right mind, would think that.
Berger: My father is an engineer, he was a post-war child.
He had doubts if its the right thing that he chose.
He told me, he was not going to study art because that wasnt work.
There was a dream there, but that wasnt a job.
He told me that.
And I suddenly realized, oh, he lived a life for pragmatic reasons.
And he sort of gave me that choice that I dont have to live that life.
Luckily, I was born in 1970 and not 1939.
I had the opportunity to not have to have to do that.
Watching you temper your dreams would have meant what he sacrificed was lost?
Berger: He was always proud of all his children, hes the best father I could imagine.
The most positive, inspiring beacon of positivity, and the rock.
He passed away about a year and a half ago, so he didnt see the Oscar.
It wouldnt have made him any prouder.
He did see the movie.
But he was already pretty far gone.
I think he liked it, but he was not in a position to really take it in.
I think he probably slept halfway through.
But he collected all newspaper articles and everything.
I know he was super proud that I took a profession because he knew how hard the profession is.
Because probably for 20 years, I was stuck in quite a rigid system, which is German television.
Most of movies are silly comedies.
Thats the only thing that somehow works, really.
People think that works.
And then theres very small few arthouse movies that succeed and once in a while break out.
But the path there is very driven by television, and thats a product.
Its state funded, so they need to satisfy everyone.
So they decide, okay, someone from nine years old to 78 needs to like this.
What gave you the courage to break free of that path?
I knocked on the door and said, I like your movies.
I want to work.
So what do I do?
So I said, where are they?
I looked in the phone book and knocked on the door.
Anthony Bregman opened it.
After I knocked on the door, Anthony said, come in.
We chatted and he said, yeah, you’ve got the option to be an intern here.
I was an intern for three months working for free.
And then I got a job there and I worked.
Where did that take you?
Whats the directors vision?
Weve got to support that.
I basically left Good Machine.
I made the movie there.
The first was was really successful.
But you always have one movie in you when youre a kid and I was 26.
You have that one movie in you and you want to tell that story.
And the second movie was kind of mediocre.
Why was it mediocre?
Berger: I didnt have enough to say it.
I was too young.
I didnt know why I made the movie.
I put everything in there until I realized that movie by movie, I gave something of myself away.
I made another compromise that took me away from the first reason why I knocked on Good Machine Store.
That got me back to my roots.
It recalibrated my brain.
I said, why am I making movies?
I wanted to know the reason.
Every movie that I make needs to have a really good personal reason why I make it.
Only then can I have the hope of transferring to the audience.
Its just not employment.
I was done seeking employment.
At Good Machine, you worked with Ang Lee and Todd Haynes and others.
What did you learn?
Berger: I worked onSense and Sensibility.
That was the main movie we did while I was there.
A couple of other ones, likeWalking and Talking.
But the first big Hollywood movie wasSense and Sensibility.
I was making 425 bucks a week and Anthony I think was making 600 or something.
And we were like six people or eight people, a tiny company.
And he took me to lunch and said, were makingIce Storm.
I want you to be the production supervisor.
Would you take that job?
That was a 400% increase or 600% increase in salary, something like that.
I was like, wow.
And I said, I cant do it.
And Anthony said, I was hoping you would say that.
Isnt that a lovely story?
Twice a year we did company reviews and evaluations of ourselves.
We each wrote a page of what we want to be.
And I always wrote in there, I want to be a director.
And Ted Hope had always told me, what, you want to be a director?
I thought you wanted to be a producer.
I see you work here.
I said, I need to make money.
And he said, if you want to be a director, you got to leave.
He told me at some point, you going to have to go out there and do it.
You feared that salary would make it a comfortable living youd be hard pressed to leave?
Berger: You make 2,500 a week, yeah, thats a profession.
You choose, you become a producer.
Its 10 grand a month.
In 1994, thats like a massive salary.
I just knew if I took that I would continue doing it.
You just get comfortable in it and its really hard to stop.
Thats why Anthony Bregman was happy you quit?
Berger: He knew I was needed to pursue what I really wanted to do.
What did you learn from Good Machine directors that steeled you to believe you had to be one?
Berger: I would say their approach, especially from Ang Lee.
Talk about a director who always chose a different movie next and who wanted to be challenged.
With Todd Haynes, it would be similar.
The incredible passion that he has, and hes a very precise director, and I admire that.
I admire when directors are precise and not like, oh, lets venture to capture this moment.
But Todd Haynes, when he does a shot and writes a scene, it always has a purpose.
Berger: Thats an absolute rumor.
Theres no truth to it whatsoever.
I would be very grateful if you put out that fire.
I will, but Id like to leave a couple embers smoking.
Sam Mendes made some damn good ones and he kind of reminds me of you.
Youd make a great 007 director…
Berger: Hes a great filmmaker.
But Barbara Broccoli is a wonderful producer.
She will know what to do at the right time, and its her family legacy.
