He discusses that here, along with the climax of a wild Oscar season.
How are you feeling as this long awards campaign comes to a close?
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EDWARD BERGER: People have said to me that this Oscar thing is likeConclave.
Edward Berger, winner of the Best International Feature Film award for “All Quiet on the Western Front,” poses in the press room during the 95th Annual Academy Awards on March 12, 2023 in Hollywood, California. (Photo by Arturo Holmes/Getty Images )
Something gets uncovered and suddenly this or that candidate falls away.
It has never felt like that to me.
I read it all and go, oh, thats interesting.
In my head, it doesnt work that way.
I want people to see and enjoy our movie, which they have.
I think it might look like how you describe it, from the outside.
When youre in it, I dont think of it as a race or a competition.
That would take the joy out of it.
Its not the Olympics.
No one will have the best time in the end, like in the 100-meter sprint.
Its just a subjective thing, or a timing thing.
All these movies are great, they all have a point of view.
None of them is the best one.
That is for the Olympics.
Ive got to convince voters.
I go around saying, I want to show the movie.
I want to bring it into view.
I feel bad when another movie that I really like has problems in their campaign.
I dont want them to have problems.
I want them to be seen as the movie that they are.
Some of the problems like this AI conversation, its not even an issue.
You guys need something to write about, but that shouldnt even have been an article.
Because that was just a tool like many we use that are available to us to make a movie.
When new technology comes around, it will always be used in movies.
We did it with sound, we did it with color, we did it with VFX.
People probably said, look, how can you use computers to generate VFX?
Theres an uproar and then it just becomes…progress.
Technology and progress in film go hand in hand.
Were all under pressure to make movies for a certain budget.
Theres going to be many more of these things in the future.
BERGER: First of all, I never re-watch my movies.
That would be torture.
Ive seen it 700 times and now its for the audience to watch it.
Its a pleasure to hear that, but I dont want to do that.
I handed it over to the audience so I dont have to watch it again.
The biggest challenge, you really put your finger on it, is locations.
It was very difficult because we didnt shoot in the Vatican and Im very demanding and particular about location.
I treat the location like I do casting an actor.
It has to be perfect for the role it needs to fulfill.
If you dont have that feeling, you shouldnt be shooting there.
You look for a long time to find those locations.
you might guess and you want to recreate your own version of it.
Everything you see in the film is a different location.
Umbrellas open, and its quite something.
How do you shoot that?
I looked for locations that would offer an opportunity to potentially do it.
And as its one shot, its got to be somewhere where youre shooting anyway.
Youre not going to drive three hours for one shot then move locations.
But it really was the first image I saw when I read the script.
Its the give and take between locations and your imagination.
Sometimes the locations inspire you, sometimes the script inspires you.
Did the Pope set him up because he didnt want Lithgows character to succeed him?
BERGER: He did.
The Pope manipulated the vote from the afterlife.
BERGER: Thats the chess game in the end.
To manipulate the chess game after he died, the pope puts the pieces into place.
DEADLINE: He took two aspirants for pope off the board in that one move.
In this case its a race, which I really dont think the Oscars are.
Its made by others into a race, but not by us.
I thought, he would have made a heckuva silent film star.
What most surprised you about that performance?
BERGER: I was hoping it would be that way.
Thats why we cast him in this role.
He is so emotive in his face that he can express with every muscle anything he thinks or feels.
Id seen him do that in other movies.
You dont know until youre on set.
Watching him actually do this thing, I really forgot the script and I just looked at his face.
Im like, hes thinking this and hes thinking that, and now hes making this plan.
You just know it, without him saying anything.
The script guides you, but his interpretation is wonderful.
Its just so expressive while not doing much, keeping his emotions inside as they boil to the top.
Those moves allowed you to build where you are now.
Is doubt still as much of an ally?
Do I doubt now in my life every day?
No, because I just made the movie and luckily it has been embraced by audiences.
But will I on the next film?
You start from zero.
Its all a big mystery, a gamble, a magical thing that just happens.
Sometimes you’re able to do everything right and the movie still doesnt work.
How can you not doubt?
If you were sure of yourself, at every turn, you would be ignorant.
People who say they dont doubt, I dont believe them.
I have to meet him.
Can you introduce me?
Whats the best thing about that opportunity to congregate with these other artists?
BERGER: Thats exactly the reason I dont believe its a race.
Im excited to watch Sean Bakers movies and meet him.
Im actually happy when he wins the DGA Award.
I was genuinely happy for him.
I think he deserved it.
I like meeting Coralie Fargeat because shes a discovery for me withThe Substance.
Jacques Audiard, who hasnt loved his movies for 25 years?
At the DGA Awards, Ang was sitting there.
Hes getting the Lifetime Honorary Achievement award and Im one of the nominees.
What a great journey.
DEADLINE: You were a peer, not an employee?
BERGER: I was there, as a peer.
I wasnt working for him anymore.
I just dont think other directors look at me like, oh, that guys a contender.
I got to beat him.
I dont think we think that way.
DEADLINE: The highlight of this awards season journey?
BERGER: Meeting Francis Coppola.
I was introduced to him via email and he was so generous in saying, Ill be Toronto forMegalopolis.
Why dont you come and see me at my hotel?
DEADLINE: Whats the most valuable bit of advice he gave you?
BERGER: I dont know if he gave advice or that hes a person who gives advice.
Hes the person who says, what do I know?
And I think maybe thats the advice.
Hes the person who says, Im a student.
I learn, every movie.
I start afresh and I dont know anything.
And Im in doubt of whether it will work but I gamble everything on it.
And I think thats great.
Just by seeing him and hearing what he says.
I think thats the advice you’re free to follow.
Just stay focused on what you do.
Stay humble, stay curious.
Continue to be a student.
Dont think youve mastered it, even if youve madeThe GodfatherorApocalypse Now.
Stay curious and give a shot to do better next time.
Thats what he is to me, from the outside.
Unfortunately, Coppola proves prescient again…
BERGER: Absolutely.
But you know what the great thing about America, looking at it from the outside?
These fires are horrific; its so terrible and horrible what happened in Los Angeles.
Or the lack of history.
How old is it?
Like 150 years old?
What comes with that is the mindset that you rebuild, you stay nimble.
The day I got a call [about the DGA nomination] was basically the day of the fires.
And Lesli Linka Glatter called me and said, I want to congratulate you.
I said, first, Im so sorry, I heard about the fire.
I hope youre okay.
She says, no, Im not okay.
I lost my house.
I can give you great news, and that makes me happy.
In Europe, I think people are much less flexible.
If we had lost those, to get up again would be very difficult.
But those people have faced new problems every day.
You cant shoot it here, the weathers bad, whatever it is, the actor is sick.
You have to rethink.
And so the Los Angelino/film community, the way they deal with this tragedy, its just admirable.
I really bow my head to the way Los Angeles has been just staying positive and help each other.
And the community that has come together to help each other is absolutely singular and unique in the world.
What affirmation about Conclave meant the most to you?
BERGER: We were on Obamas film of the year list.
That was pretty good, dont you think?
Mike Fleming loved the film enough to watch it again, that is pretty good.
Wait, let me think.
I was in Rome at the festival and we premiered it in front of 1,200 people last October.
I had shot in Rome, so it was kind of a homecoming.
That meant a lot.
It wont be either, but do you long to play in that sandbox?
BERGER: It is definitely a sandbox I covet, because, why not?
Denis Villeneuve did that so beautifully while staying true to his vision and his voice.
He reaches hundreds of millions of people around the world.
I want to do that.
I think thats fantastic.
Why not try that out?
Its not going to work, unless you love it and breathe it.
With Denis,Dunecomes from the heart.
If he saw it as a job, it would never be as good.
And I tried to warn you, but hey, who cares?
DEADLINE: That was the Oceans Eleven sequel.
Im definitely reading things.
Could this be for me?
Could this be for me?
So I dont quite know what to do next because Im editingThe Ballad of a Small Playerwith Colin Farrell.
I think Im going to be proud of the film.
I want to take it to one of the fall festivals.
Ive been busy posting that and promoting this one.
So I didnt really have the headspace or the heart to say whats going to be next.
He said he saw it with David Putnam while they were prepping a movie.
Said he got angrier and angrier watching, that George Lucas got there first.
That led to the search that resulted in Alien.
BERGER: Denis and Chris Nolan are the best examples of this.
They made massive commercial successes while never once betraying themselves or selling out.
