Richard Gadd is doing his best to stay anonymous, though its no longer all that easy for him.
Since April 11, his has been one of the worlds most recognizable faces.
In part, their fervor might be fueled by the organic wayBaby Reindeerbroke out.
Violeta Sofia for Deadline
Its with this response in mind that Gadd and I begin our walk around his local park.
Youve found universality in something that is also so intensely personal for you.
But given it is so personal, how much did all this take you by surprise too?
RICHARD GADD: Im quite moved, listening to you talk about that.
Its stuff like that that really helps me weather the storm, in a lot of ways.
Its not just Donny looking for that, either; its Martha too, and all of the characters.
But I guess I was bored of artistic narratives where the central person is nothing but good.
Life is very complicated, and people are a mixture of positive and negative.
I wanted to show that, to bring that out in the world.
But most people are appreciative or grateful for it, I think.
I think it would be of benefit to society if people stop being so apparently perfect all the time.
People are scared to own up to their mistakes, for whatever reason.
GADD: It probably adds to them, right?
Ambition is great, but sometimes setting those kinds of goalposts for yourself is dangerous.
It never works like that.
Everyone is going to understand me, and everything will be fine.
It doesnt work like that.
Its an ongoing process for me.
I dont act like Ive found the secret sauce.
I still have my dark days.
DEADLINE: In terms of the trauma?
Its still there, even though Ive achieved a certain level of catharsis.
DEADLINE: Its not something you could ever walk away from or put behind you.
GADD: No, its not about getting over it.
Its about working to live with it.
Thats a phrase that comes up a lot in the work Ive done.
Every persons journey is slightly different, but there are still tough days.
Days you just have to ride out a bit.
Do you think the world has shifted in its understanding of things?
GADD: I think yes and no.
Or, they were, but not on a societal level.
Especially men would never dare to have those kinds of conversations.
Just before I went out to Edinburgh, I was watchingOz, do you remember that HBO show?
I remember having this flood of adrenaline just shoot through my body, like, What am I doing?
I had multiple freakouts.
I went up to Edinburgh that year convinced it was going to ruin my career.
That people would say, Well, this kind of subject matter has no place on a comedy stage.
But the universal praise I got was crazy.
Now, though, I think were in a more polarized place as a society.
Everything has become very polemical.
Thats very hard to live with.
So, whos Darrien?
DEADLINE: Another part of that has been the suggestion that you must have known people would speculate.
Its just a crazy time, and its quite a lot to take on because its very niche.
Its almost like a British independent film, the show.
DEADLINE: The Netflix megahit is not necessarily something that is being curated by the human beings at Netflix.
It does seem to be restoring power to the audience.
GADD: Its really interesting.
I kept thinking, Surely the jig is going to be up at some point.
But they didnt, which is great.
Itll never fully be able to predict human emotion or soul, to the truest extent.
People ask me, What do you think it says about the state of the world?
People recognize the characters in that show as human life staring back at them.
I think the radical honesty ofBaby Reindeerhas worked in its favor.
But it was surprising, because I was known as the nichest of niche comedians.
I never, ever thought I would be a selling point for the mainstream.
I never thought I would be of tabloid interest to people.
It took a lot of adjustment.
I thought the show would be a success in a critical, artistic sense.
DEADLINE: What was release weekend like for you?
How quickly did you notice the show taking flight?
GADD: I remember thinking, Maybe some people will watch it this weekend.
Maybe a few more the weekend after.
I probably never will again, to be honest.
For the most part, the reviews were very positive.
DEADLINE: You mean paparazzi?
GADD: Yeah, Ive been papped outside the house.
Then the odd fan, or the odd person asking about it.
I had to switch it right off.
There was a time where I would be stuck inside, but even there I couldnt escape it.
It was this weird feeling that it was becoming too big to control.
Not that I wanted to control it, but it was becoming too big for its own good.
It just felt like it was everywhere on the news, on the radio, outside my house.
Id get these text messages on my phone; I wouldnt even recognize the number.
A certain paper has been in touch, what do you want me to say?
Id be like, Whos this?
and itd be someone I hadnt seen since primary school.
How did they find you?
DEADLINE: Was that just in the immediate aftermath of release?
Because it feels like the conversation has never stopped.
GADD: It has been so overwhelming that it has felt like almost a blur.
I sat next to a mum and her son, and then suddenly, theyre discussing the show.
I think, Are they just doing this because Im here and they recognize me?
But they hadnt noticed.
They were just talking about it, in a really sort of coarse way.
And Im literally there, listening to this.
Its just, I wasnt expecting it to become this phenomenon.
Thats when you hear of celebrities having extraordinary breakdowns, or addiction issues.
Theyre scared to admit theyre struggling.
DEADLINE: I suppose, then, the question becomes: has it been worth it?
There are others who dont want to admit that these kinds of things happen in the world.
But theres that old phrase: disturbing the comfortable and comforting the disturbed.
Even when people are like, If he didnt want it, why did he go back?
I think thats a good thing, even if it can be difficult to read.
Nevertheless, she hadnt become a household name.
Gadd knew her work and loved her guest appearances.
She would come in and steal whatever show it was, he notes.
We auditioned loads of people for Martha; maybe 20 or 30 people, says Gadd.
But she came in and played it very much against bang out.
[Jessica] captured her vulnerability.
Gadd wasnt the final arbiter on casting, but he says he begged for Gunning to get the role.
Everybody could see how amazing she was, so it wasnt anything to do with that, he says.
But questions of star casting came in.
Suddenly you understand why he does what he does.
I think as an audience, we want messy things.
She pitched an idea to a big ITV executive about a split-screen show.
She said, How dare you?
Dont you underestimate Mrs. Jones from York.
And I think thats often what happens.
In doing that, youre allowed to see the story for what it is.
I think its a myth that audiences will watch something just because theres a name in it.
It was just about getting it made so that the people we care about could see it.
That was the victory, because it kept the focus on what mattered.
Nobody was thinking, Wait til the whole world sees this.
Its really hard to forget that people love the show and to focus on telling the story.
DEADLINE: How familiar were you with Richards work before the show?
GUNNING: Id seen his playMonkey See, Monkey Do.
I hadnt seenBaby Reindeer[on stage].
Then I got the rest of the scripts.
DEADLINE: What was your initial reaction?
We read it together and she was like, Thats f*cking freaky.
I realized I hadnt read it as creepy.
I had just read it as: what a beautiful thing to say to somebody.
How lovely that she feels so safe with him [laughs].
I just saw the human in her, which I think is because he wrote her so well.
I think he saw the human in her, too.
DEADLINE: Its hard not to feel empathetic toward Martha, for sure.
Then, one moment, he said, I love the show, by the way.
Were all a little bit Martha.
Weve all had obsessions, or people who weve been in love with just a bit too much.
It made me quite emotional, because it was true.
DEADLINE: How do you see the moments where Martha blows up at Donny and yells at him?
GUNNING: Its a definite response to frustration.
During that scene in the cafe, she says, Somebody hurt you, didnt they?
She wants to know, and he wants to feel heard.
It was a man, wasnt it?
Hes thinking, Who is this woman, is she magic?
She feels that too, about him.
Also, hes a comedian and she laughs at everything he says.
If they have fantasies, its about that person loving them back.
If you remember, she comes to him and says, Oh, can you do it?
And hes like, Im a bit busy.
With her, its like, Your comedys not actually that great.
Theres a real matter-of-factness and a knowingness to the fantasy, which I found really interesting.
She wants to know him better than anyone else, she wants to criticize him.
Its that fantasy of love.
Feeling seen, and knowing someone better than anyone else.
I always used to imagine her going home and improvising in her head how the next day might go.
The thing about Donny is sometimes he was even better than her improvisations.
She wouldnt have even dreamed hed say something like that back.
I think there are so many moments where it feels inevitable to her that theyre a couple.
DEADLINE: Ive seen some footage of Richards stand-up.
Some of Donnys jokes are lifted wholesale from that.
I think hes being harsh in the way he suggests it is too esoteric for anyone to like.
GUNNING: Have you really seen it, though?
Im not sure hes being too harsh [laughs].
Oh, dont tell him I said that.
DEADLINE: No second season for you!
But it certainly does play better in context than it does in the show.
He is naturally funny, but he does love that kind of anti-comedy bit.
Its such a great scene because its so charged and revengeful, but its funny too.
I was checking in on her too, because it was so traumatizing for everyone, really.
The whole of the crew I think found that whole time very, very intense.
I can really read his face now, so I know if hes doing OK or not.
If were doing interviews together, I can tell, Oh, hes feeling something right now.
His life has beenBaby Reindeerfor nearly two years now.
DEADLINE: Thats good to hear given the way the show has provoked discussion in the tabloid press.
It would take a toll on anybody, let alone someone who has been through what hes been through.
But I think the response with some of the charities hes worked with has been immense.
Its almost like theres an agenda there.
GUNNING: I know.
This is an industry thats seen as entertainment, as escapism, which of course it is.
People go to watch those Marvel films to feel great and get sent into a different world.
BeforeBaby Reindeercame out, I think they predicted that 7% of the Netflix audience would watch it.
But now that its just gone absolutely stratospheric, its mad.
You realize how many different kinds of people are watching it and feeling something in it.
The thing that I hadnt realized before is how they seem to get away with outright lies.
Its someone being really brave and putting themselves out there.
If those stories are misinformation, or theyre wrong, then thats really frustrating.
DEADLINE: Where do you go from here?
And Im enjoying the response to the show and enjoying talking about it, which has been great.
Maybe some sort of collaboration might come from that with a new director or writer or interesting person.
